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psychedelic anarchy?

+1 vote
have people here had their the concepts of anarchy influenced -to a greater or lesser degree- by psychedelic experiences, or other unusual experience?

personally these experiences have helped guide a lot of my metaphysical ideas, which are the foundation of my ideas of anarchy and the individual. -will go into more detail if prompted-
asked Apr 16 by shinminmetroskyline (1,100 points)
based on the experiences you related, syrphant, i think you had expectations you tried to deny (perhaps to yourself), and that you didn't make clear to your friends.

but that doesn't make the case for more accounting to me. i have a good knack for accounting (i even used to write software for it), but letting go of looking at life through that sort of economic lens has led to me feeling generally more satisfied in my relationships.

i think psychedelics (while using them, at least) surely help to lose any concept of "rules".

syrphant, the scenario you described highlights precisely why i choose not to see the world through the economic lens of exchange value. as ba@ mentioned, you clearly had expectations, even if you did not initially acknowledge them. those kinds of expectations are imo absolutely unavoidable when your life is defined by economics and exchange value.

you willingly accept and embrace that economic perspective on life; the results are fairly predictable. if the outcomes make you feel shitty, maybe it's time to rethink that perspective. unless you like feeling shitty.

edit: "mutually agreed values that everyone keeps track of"

that right there is an unrealistic expectation, to me. individual values change, and keeping track of them seems like just more bookkeeping of individual desires - something i think is not possible. simply acknowledging the dynamic nature of individuals and relationships -  along with good, direct communication - seems like the only way to avoid such disappointments and "pain". trying to shoehorn that into some abstract bookkeeping system is of no interest to me whatsoever.

syrphant, how do you feel about asking a question about economics or something so that this thread can be more easily found for those who are interested?

your stories involve you giving things that are too big for yourself, and then feeling bad, rather than going slowly and feeling neither as good or as bad as you do now. to me you're describing something like an addiction (too dramatic, but you know...), where you're seeking the high, and then want people's help with the consequent low. i might argue that part of the high comes from the risk (how will the person respond), and the unexpected nature of your offer (many potential conflicting and fascinating motivations), and that--with that--the low is part of the deal, not something that can be avoided, really.

i have twice given people large things that were freely given in a spirit of largesse and affection, and then changed my mind about those people, once, partly, because i got to a place of scarcity and they didn't respond in a way that worked for me. but that is how i would talk about it. not that they owed me anything. it just spoke to their capacity, and how much in synch we were/n't. one of them i had given money to because i had a lot at the time and felt guilty about having money. my point there is that motivation is always mixed, on both sides of these exchanges, although now i'm not remembering why i thought that was important to say...

time for more tea.
Holy epiphany, dot! That is a deep and valuable insight: "the low is part of the deal." You're right, you know, I never thought about it that way.
yay! epiphanies are fun :)

2 Answers

+3 votes

psychedelics had a huge influence on my life in general, around the same time i started reading @ lit. While there are a lot of components and a lot of insights i gained i would say chief among them was ego loss/death. really helped me view everything as equal heirs to the earth, gave me a renewed meaning to my own personal life to cut through my nihilism, and thus a more positive view of the fact that all the stars burn out eventually, the breaking down of barriers between me and other beings (the interconnectedness) helped me care more about the struggles of others and solidarity, maybe some other stuff i cant put my finger on, but i would say it less directly influenced my anarchy and more just overall as a person, and thus indirectly relates to my concept of anarchy.

a better illustration: now. after LSD and others, when i see two cops shoving someone in a car, i dont see two cops and a criminal, i see two people attacking and abusing another (and their wellbeings all depend on eachother (the interconnectedness))

edit:optimistic nihilism from realizing how unimportant i am

changed that to: gave me a renewed meaning to my own personal life to cut through my nihilism, and thus a more positive view of the fact that all the stars burn out eventually,

answered Apr 19 by DonnieDarko (870 points)
edited Apr 20 by DonnieDarko
wait, i don't understand. you say you gained ego death and insights from psychedelics. or did you mean you experienced ego death while on psychedelics? in ego death there is no you, yourself and u. nor any sense of self or awareness of your existence. to find meaning to your personal life during ego death is odd and doesn't make sense since there is no "i" or self to find meaning for yourself.. trying to find meaning for your personal self would imply you're aware, have a sense of self and your existence.  ego death isnt something you gain and it doesn't stick around for long time. ego death is hard to explain. im not sure what you meant by "gaining ego death"

what you're describing is more on par with stuff like lsd or ald-52 and a few other ones. to end up in ego death you'd likely have to take a lot.
didn't say "gained ego death" and didn't describe the experience so negating it is weird. those who have experienced it disagree that one cant experience it, as "you" aren't there, as you don't experience it as you, you experience it as everything, or everythingyou and that's part of the point.

obviously something profound will be analyzed by most people, even if not at the moment, and likely have some effect on them as a person.
and I did take alot
oh im sorry, the wording of the 2nd and 3rd sentence in your answer was confusing to me. so the 2nd sentence meant there are a lot of components and insights you gained and one of the components & insights you gained would be ego death? or would it be the insight alone or component alone? thanks for clarifying.

your follow up sentence reads like you were still meaning ego death rather than whatever it was you were actually trying to convey. hence my comment.  George is glad you clarified and now knows you weren't meaning ego death in the 3rd sentence of your answer, but something else.

i've experienced ego death a few times off a combo of dmt and other fun stuff and discussed it with a few people that have experienced it. it's fairly difficult to explain to others.

"those who have experienced it disagree that one cant experience it, as "you" aren't there, as you don't experience it as you, you experience it as everything, or everything you and that's part of the point."

George doesn't know what you're meaning by that sentence.
I was referring to ego death. a better way to word it would have been insights as a result of the experience of ego death.
0 votes
Great question; excellent conversation topic.  I've never tried pscyhadelics. I have some pschological issues that produce wierd experiences for me without them; my "natural" trips are not always comfortable, so I never wanted to push my mind further in that direction. In high-school I hung out with kids who enjoyed acid; they actually asked for me to be there - sober - to help them trip. I just remember them mostly laying on the floor and me producing sounds and visual effects and deep thoughts. I felt no desire to join them on the floor; I kinda felt they were going to a lot of trouble to get where I tend to drift off to sometimes and go to trouble to get back from.  Now in my older age I'd like to experiment with LSD but I wouldn't even know how to go about finding a dealer.

I reckon anyone who thinks deep is going to end up anarchist. I reckon anyone with a particularly heightened empathy for others and particularly intense awareness of things like time and change are going to end up thinking deep.  If psychadelics can dissolve the man-made reality we take for granted and reveal the truer, greater complexity, I'm sure they'll lead many people to anarchist thought.
answered May 9 by Syrphant (600 points)

i wish i still had glasses as deeply rose-colored as yours, syrphant. and i wish i had some pure liquid to send you!

"I reckon anyone who thinks deep is going to end up anarchist. "

if only...

i also think that idea implies a sort of patronizing attitude shared by so many folks with strong ideas about how the world "should" be. as i mentioned above, my own psychedelic experiences opened doors in my mind that could never be closed again. yet all of my living experiences through 57+ years also play into the complex soup that is my mind, hopefully preventing me from allowing any one element of my experiences to color all of my "reality".

Look, if I sound patronizing maybe I'm trying to convince myself, 'cause in all honesty I'm the most confused, insecure member of this group. As you often remind me. Don't rub your moral.and intellectual superiority in my face; it's patronizing ;)

fuck superiority! i have no morals, and my intellect is constantly in question (primarily - though definitely not exclusively - by me).

however, i AM always right. (or is it left...?)